A whole lot of confusion

Hey - so I'm coming off of another night of waking up at 3am thinking hard about what transpired the evening before, and limping through the rest of my day from fatigue.

Been with my wife for 25 years (married for 20). I work a job that has a pension coming in 3.5 years. We ran a business together for about 10 years. She became a stay at home mom to raise my 3 daughters (something my own mother wasn't able to do - she went back to work when I was 9 months old and finally retired when I was 14). My wife did a great job with my daughters. But now they are 16, 16, and 18... the business took a hard beating over Covid then inflation, my wife didn't communicate some of our challenges leading to her running personal and business debt up to 35k (we finally paid it off). Now I am running the business mostly alone - trying to save it. My wife no longer wants anything to do with it so - I basically lost my partner.

Also for the past 10 years I was building an arm of our business 2 hours away in a semi tourist location, along with rebuilding a foreclosure house (for all those years nobody told me to stop building). Bought the house with one of my daughters urging me to buy it and her saying she'd help me rebuild (she never helped). Now after years of building, and over 10 years of my family spending warmer months in this area - now none of them come up there with me. It's been 2 years of me trying to hold this 2nd business location together and building this house - alone, with no help.

Added to this is this odd distain and disregard for me in the household among my daughters with my status as a male. Like some feminist sentiment, that almost seems to be encouraged by my wife. It started roughly in middle school. It's okay for Dad to go off and work 80 hours a week, put money away for college funds, funnel every dime toward the family and my girls either mock me, fly off the handle at me, or completely ignore me - and that includes my wife. If I try to speak to the kids as a parent, my wife injects or undermines whatever I am saying. Over Christmas my one daughter was sick. I suggested that she look in the back of her throat to check for strep throat. The kid flipped a switch on me, then my wife leaned in on me, saying stuff like "where were you all these years when they were sick, don't you think we know this stuff?" It sucked. I ended up retreating to bed (wife and I don't sleep in the same room) and I felt completely crushed. Pushed so far down. Through my life I've held on through hard times always worrying about hurting other people through my own actions. But like - my world view can crumble so hard and I become tormented by this hopeless feeling. A deep pain.

No matter how I try to express to my wife how this is all impacting me, it is disregarded - as if it is always assumed that I am indestructible, meanwhile it's the people closest to me that are hurting me the most.

Also - for the past 2 years, I've been having headaches. I got checked out for it. Was told that I had a brain bleed going on but nothing that doctors could address and I got tired of worrying about it.

I work constantly because it disconnects me from depression, dark thoughts, physical pain, etc. It also seems to cause the headaches to recede. Yesterday I drove 2 hours to my other business location to do some house keeping (we've gone on shortened hours for January because I've been so stretched thin and worn down by these flair ups at home). I covered my tasks then got over to the house - filled with the wish to spend the day there to build - got on the road in a snow squall, hit another task on the way back home, and arrived home optimistic, happy to be back, no headache, and my wife saying - "come sit at the table and eat." I go to sit and as is the common pattern, everyone is on their phones, nobody even looks up, or says "hello" - let alone: "how was your day dad" "what did you do" - "how is the house coming" - nothing. Instead, my one kid mocked what I was eating, another kid glared at me from the head of the table (yeah a kid sits at the head and my wife defends that configuration) and I'm at a disadvantage because if I say anything, then my wife takes the kids' sides and I get portrayed as "not chill" - or just being somehow negative male energy.

None of this is what I envisioned. I gave everything to them and I feel betrayed by my wife and sometimes I look back and wish that I had been more selective when we got together. I bring up old memories with my wife but she just seems disinterested. I told her that I feel lonely.

There are other issues. She is a woman that holds her masters degree and recently went back to work to a supermarket and the schedule consumes her Sundays - basically making it impossible for her to road trip with me to the project house. She insists that she is not able to get a better job. I keep my opinions under wraps but in my own life - I don't say "can't" and apparently I also don't say "quit" in how I can't seem to shut down my business - the thought of doing so fills me with that dark dread, and I feel that if I don't save it, it will cause resentment to grow worse than it already is, and will lead to an end of my marriage, an end to my family life - or worse for me.

So I'm stuck. I always say "an honest man has nothing to fear." The easiest thing to do would be to stay the course, take this all on the chin, not be a bad father like my dad was.... I always wanted to be an asset to my kids instead of a source of their pain. But then my pain is so hard sometimes. I think about ways to not come home anymore. I dread the feeling of being crushed, especially when I work myself toward a little relief - literally through work. Then it comes on me after being ignored once I walk in. It eats me up and causes me to lose hours of sleep. Causes me to think terrible thoughts. Like I said, stuck.

Hi @As one - welcome to MSF. I am so sorry things are so challenging with your daughters and wife. They are stuck in negative patterns and it seems to drag you down. That must be so tough on you.

Glad you joined the community

CANDC

[If you want me to see your reply to this post please include @CANDC in your message - not in requoting my message and not the first word of your message]

Welcome.

I’m sorry things are so hard and lonely. Can you sale the house you’re working on as is and at least have one less thing on your plate.

It's amazing that you're able to work hard on your projects, despite how depressed you obviously feel. Your situation sounds quite miserable. I wish I could come up with some good advice, but this is a tough, tough problem that's gone on for a long time. For starters, I would say to not undertake any more projects where you rely on family for help. They're just not going to provide it, even after saying they would. Realistically, a teenager is not old enough to commit to helping you build a house. If you purchased a property because your teenaged daughter urged you to do so, you need to not be making decisions in that way. That's an adult decision. Your teenaged kid does not belong having any part of deciding something like that. If your daughter can handle a commitment beyond keeping up with her school work, then it would be good for her to get a part-time job.

Does any one of your daughters have a job? They are all old enough. If they don't work because Dad provides them with pocket money, that's part of the problem. It sounds like you're being played for a sucker. That can only happen, if you go along with it. It seems that you allow wife and daughters to totally have their own way. You're being way too passive, which is why you get no respect. I don't believe anyone can change their basic personality, but you really need to make an attempt to re-negotiate your position and role in this family.

Here's a concrete suggestion to start with. When you come to the dinner table, tell your daughter to get up and choose another seat. Do not allow her to sit at the head of the table. Tell her she has to move over. Don't argue with her or her mother. If she asks why, just say "because I said so." If she refuses to move, either physically get her out of that seat, or leave the house and go have your dinner at a restaurant. But do not keep accepting that subordinate position, if you really want anything to change. You have to stage a revolt against this "system," and there's no way to do that without making yourself a bit unpleasant. If you fear doing anything that will upset anybody, then you are doomed to continue living exactly as you have been living.

There is no way you can persuade your wife and daughters to behave differently. You are the one who has to change your behavior. Only after you change, will anything else change. It will not kill you to have your family upset with you. You have nothing to lose. They're not going to all pack up and leave you because they all financially depend on you. Stop believing you have to obediently conform to their expectations . . . or else. Or else what? You fear you will lose your family and be alone. Stop living in fear. A family who will stay with you, only if they can make a fool out of you, is not worth having. The proof of that is how horribly depressed you feel. I doubt they're going anywhere. If you let them believe that you will tolerate anything, rather than displease them, then they will keep treating you like an @$$. You don't have to get mad. Just stop letting them dictate how things will be done. You need to rebel.

I can hear your pain and frustration, as you endeavour to provide for your family.

The brain wants to keep us safe. So when we are scared that our partner is going to leave us, that a relationship is going to fall apart, what is scarier than the fear, is not knowing when it will take place. So we push away first. If we they are judging us, we act as though they already have. If we feel they are going to get emotional, we act as though they already are. The brain will take control to keep us safe by taking away the unknown. - the when.

There are some things we can do to get back and align goals, get on the same team.

When our partners, our kids, dynamics in our life "trigger" us, what is the actual trigger? For what purpose do we get so worked up and emotions rise within us? What is going on in the background? Theres an acronym I heard, "S E E N" that is worthy of consideration.

S - Scared
Am I scared you don't love me for who I am, but rather love who I wish I was? Is that because I don't love who I am at the moment? I love who I wish I was a lot more, and I'd rather blame you for that.

E - Embarrassed
I am embarrassed that I am not juggling all of this with a smile, I'm embarrassed that I am tired, that I am not the perfect husband and father. Which leads to->

E- Expectations
I expect myself to be the perfect husband, the perfect father, and work tirelessly to be that, which is unreasonable because what does that look like? And, I expect you to care more about how hard I am trying, than what I am actually doing. Which also means I never expect you to ever feel let down. And when you do, I take it super personally. But that's not fair on you because your a human with expectations too.

N - Need
I need to stop taking responsibility for your feelings because I need rest, which makes me feel weak, and that is the most embarrassing feeling of all.


All of those are in some way, sitting in the background not being talked about in a neutral way.

There are expectations, and when we feel disappointments, its great because it means there is a level of miss-match with those expectations. So, if we find ourselves thinking or saying, "I can't believe you don't care about me enough to do this", there is a miss-match which can be identified and bridged with communication - "I know you love me, but I can't feel it right now. Because I expect the person who loves me to do X, Y, Z. It doesn't mean I don't love you, it means we don't have the same expectations of me. How do you expect me to respond, how would you handle this?"

As soon as any sort of defensiveness comes up, highlight your goal of alignment: "I want us to be on the same team, and I think you do to."


Recognize expectations, align together in the common goal, self-analyse using S E E N and communicate.

I hope there's something in there that helps. Wishing you and your family well as you navigate a very challenging set of dynamics

Hello As One.
Glad you shared your situation with us. I’m also a father, I have two daughters and had a wife. I also experienced that “dad is invincible” feeling and I felt uncomfortable admitting to any weaknesses.
Blitter has some great advice, and I don’t have much to add, I am no longer married so I’m not an expert on saving a marriage.

One thing I feel compelled to say though, is, that the seating arrangement power dynamic is strictly an illusion, and wrestling it from your daughter through stern demands or god forbid physical force, shows your desperation and weakness.
They are just chairs and it’s just a table, and it’s a family sitting at it, not your enemies even though I suppose they feel like that at the moment.

I feel this “head of the table” is a trope from the ‘50s atomic family age which in itself was a bit of a farce.

My daughters are 13 and 16 and I have tried the “because I’m your father and I say so” and it actually makes no sense, how would you react to that?
I stopped attacking the front gates, it’s impossible to win that way unless you break them.
I switched to surveillance, when I put my own feeling of anger and bitterness aside I was able to see the cracks in their walls, alternate routes in.
I’m not the stereotypical father wielding his electric turkey cutter at thanksgiving and doling out portions, I am a silent observer and psychological ninja, I can tell they find it quite unnerving.

But of course, I am not you, and what works for one man doesn’t for another.