What to do when they come back?

The regulars here know my history.

I was married to an abusive, manipulative spouse who also emotionally abused and neglected the kids. We’re almost two years separated. One kid is a teen the other is a young adult.

She doesn’t have many old friends left. A lot of them reached out to me after our separation. They’re all family people, and our kids are fully with me.

Tonight something occurred to me for the first time.

What if she calls or shows up because she has nowhere to go? She hasn’t held a job or earned enough to live off since 2010. Someone is paying her bills and at some point that could collapse.

What if she calls because she’s gotten a bad prognosis, diagnosis, health scare, etc, and no one around her cares?

What if she’s called because she’s lost someone she loves, possibly someone we have a mutual connection too?


I think I need to have a planned or rehearsed response. I’m a pretty soft hearted person. I can be manipulated in these situations.

Thanks

RDMercer

It is a great idea to plan ahead and release your response. I do not know the details because I have not read the long threads but based on thr synopsis you provided, it is wise to develop a strategy now when it is all hypothetical.

I think it's wise to think through these scenarios and to prepare, just in case. She's already shown up on your doorstep, taking you completely by surprise.

By the way, how is she paying for all these nice things she currently has? Didn't she have a new car, a new large home, new clothing, etc etc? I'm just curious. Who is paying for all of this for her if she still cannot work?

So, when my abusive ex husband's mother died and he wanted my support after we had separated, I told him point blank: I am no longer that person for you. I am no longer your go-to support person. We are separated and I am divorcing you - that means that we are no longer associated and in a any kind of a relationship. We are not even friends. I don't want a friendship with you, or anything to do with you. You will have to rely on someone else for support.

If she ever does have the opportunity, to me, a direct answer like that is the best approach - saying NO, drawing a boundary and being firm, direct, and resolute.

But do not give her the opportunity.

If she did come to you in dire straights, you know full well that she would have a hidden ulterior motive - whatever that may be. Never allow yourself to be ensnared by her manipulations ever again - this is a new mantra to repeat to yourself as much as you need to.

She took you by surprise by dropping by with some man on her arm and a new car, shiny beautiful new clothes, etc etc. She planned it that way. That maneuver was dripping with calculated, well planned out manipulation. She wanted you to want her back - she wanted to pull on your heartstrings and make you envious of the man in tow. And then she tried to bribe your daughter into a secret relationship by bribing her with a phone? The whole thing was just sickening - and look how badly it effected you. You have an entire thread on the incident.

So, it's good to think in this case of the worst case scenario and plan ahead.

Be resolute in your decision to never lift a finger to help this calculating, abusive, cruel, and manipulative ex. She could easily play victim and make you feel guilty somehow for not helping her.

Remember, the less you engage with her, the more you are protecting yourself - and your kids - from any further harm. It's in your best interests - and theirs - to protect and shield yourselves fully from her. She clearly will stoop to any level to get to you and your kids, and to pull you down and back in.

Don't ever allow that to happen.

Shut the door in her face, if she ever shows up at your home again. Block her on your phone, if you haven't yet, and everywhere else. The less you expose yourself to her, the more protected and shielded you are from her manipulations. Deal only with her through the lawyers. There is no reason to speak directly with her ever again.

It's your peace of mind - and your kids peace of mind - that you must protect.

She’s been blocked on my phone for over a year.

Her emails go to a separate folder that I check once a week

I don’t know how she’s paying for everything. I expect it’s man/men, and also her burning through the money she took from the LOC and funds we’d set aside for the kids, and probably borrowing money in anticipation of everything she’s going to get from me.

That’s such a simple response; “I’m not that person to you anymore.”

Thanks Hope.

Why check the filtered email folder? Don't. For your own sanity and health.

Why check the email folder?

Because she plays “concerned mom” periodically.

Last January she wanted to know our daughter’s course selection for second semester. This month she asked if I was keeping her vaccinations up to date.

She gets very, very short replies from me, (“she’s taking all her required course to graduate on time”and “she’s making informed health decisions with our family doctor”)

I won’t let her go to court and be able to say “He’s alienating the kids and withholding information.”

Well, it's very good you're making your replies brief. She is only upholding a facade of being a caring mother.

This is kind of funny to me....

I have a colleague my wife has never met. She is about 10 years younger, very attractive, and tough as nails. On her own since she was 16.

A while back she asked, "Do you want me to go to court with you?"

The request kind of stumped me and I stumbled and said, ".... Oh my God.... She'd hate you."

She replied, "Oh I know. And I know exactly what to wear. And let's put some pictures up on social media, just enough to make people ask questions. She won't come back."

That was funny to me at the time, but you know.... That WOULD work......

Now I feel guilty for having said that.

My wife is disordered in her thinking and in her personality.

I don’t want to hurt her. I want to protect me and the kids.

That goes back to hard boundaries I guess

Yes, this is excellent.

Keep the answer simple and direct. Say exactly what you mean, and don't let them pull you into justifying your boundary. Whatever you say is the final word on the matter.

Speaking as someone who was very codependent, and therefore very "other" focused, the toughest part for me in regard to boundaries, was learning to use the word 'I' to start/state healthy boundaries. Much of my life, if I started a sentence with I, me, my, etc, I'd be accused of being selfish or narcissistic (of course by people who actually exhibit those traits).

When it comes to good boundaries, it's important to speak from only your own space. No talking in terms of the other person's experience or feelings. No starting sentences with "you" or "your", or even focusing attention on anything that person might need or want. There's a codependency quote that says something along the lines of, "You cannot set a boundary and tend to the other person's feelings simultaneously." It's important to accept that reality. They have to deal with the consequences and their own feelings.

And never forget that "No." is a complete sentence.

don't let them pull you into justifying your boundary. Whatever you say is the final word on the matter.

THANK YOU

I like that.

I understand “no” is a complete sentence. I can’t say it yet. I’m getting better at boundaries but I still feel the need to justify or rationalize.

Thanks @ArmorPlate108. I appreciate your codependency insight

Something else that comes to mind, which may be relevant to this topic:

Try not to allow yourself to be pressured or pushed on the spot. It's perfectly okay to take a moment to think about the most appropriate response for your needs in the situation. Even a very brief, contemplative silence can be unnerving for a bully who's trying to control the situation and get something they want from you. Stopping and thinking before responding can often put you back into feeling in control of the situation, and yourself.

In some situations, it's also okay to buy time- i.e. "Let me think about that and get back to you tomorrow."

You already know these things get easier with practice. You're doing well, and will keep building that skill set the more you do it.

It's definitely okay to think up scenarios that could come up, and then appropriate responses you could use. That's still practice.

“ Try not to allow yourself to be pressured or pushed on the spot. It's perfectly okay to take a moment to think about the most appropriate response for your needs in the situation”

A friend of mine managed entry level food service staff for ten years. She said it was a common request for an immediate answer for time off, shift change, etc. she told me any immediate answer is always a “no”. If you let me think about it, maybe there’s a solution., but an immediate answer is No.

That just popped into my mind here

My stance on these type of statements: she has inflicted an inordinate amount of pain, guilt, and harm on you and the kids, that you are still reeling from today.

You can have compassion for someone who is disordered yes, but to me, that compassion has a limit.

This is all on her and her poor treatment of you and the kids that went on for YEARS. She has done this to herself.

So, yes, while she may have a mental illness, she is well aware of her actions because she can turn it off and on like a switch. She knows what she is doing, and her behaviors are all self serving. She does not care one ounce how her actions impact you or the kids. That is the nature of the abusive personality.

So, my friend, compassion goes only so far and then there's accountability.

I will share a story to demonstrate my point.

My ex husband cried his eyes out to me the last time I kicked him out of our home - I kicked him out for fighting with me for 6 weeks straight and for breaking a promise made to me, yet again. This was the last promise I swore I would ever let him make to me, and he broke it.

I stood in the kitchen watching him, as tears and snot ran down his face and as he bawled and cried out to me. The only words I could mutter to him at the time were "you did this to yourself".

That memory is burned into my brain. At one point after our divorce, I felt awful about seeing him cry like that and for being cold as ice as I watched him cry.

That's where compassion has its limits.

My ex husband lied to me repeatedly, he insulted me repeatedly, with cruel so- called "jokes", he demeaned me, he cheated on me, he stole from me, and he screamed at me. He broke promise after promise to me in our marriage. He broke me, my faith, and my trust. I wanted to die. That's how horrible he made me feel. To add insult to injury, he kicked me repeatedly whenever I was down. I was this man's emotional punching bag. Well, I finally had had enough and kicked him out for the last time.

So, while at times I may cringe over that memory, I also remember exactly how I felt at the time, standing there in the kitchen doorway watching him cry and pack his things. I felt cold. This man had done SO much damage, that I had no more compassion left for him. I didn't feel sorry for him then, or really even now. Had he behaved in a manner that communicated true love, true caring, true respect, true honesty and true loyalty to me, then it would have turned out very differently.

So, my friend, the point of this story is that yes, you can be compassionate, but be mindful of the need for 100% accountability for her harmful actions towards you and the kids. You endured decades of abuse.

No, you don't need to cause her harm, and I get that you don't want to. That's because you're a good-hearted person and a caring one.

But she did this to herself and must be held accountable, even if she never owns up to her behaviors verbally to you, she can be held accountable for her behavior in your mind and your stance about the marriage today.

So don't feel too sorry for her. Be mindful and be realistic vs idealistic.

Hope, that’s hard to read. I’m sorry you went through all that.

When I think about it though, the same was done to me and the kids; emotional punching bags, neglected, degraded, stolen from since years and still creating disruption. It’s crazy that it’s still so easy to empathize with others and I’m still prone to rationalizing my own experiences

RDMercer

@RDMercer, thank you. Think of my story as being different yet similar to yours and all that you have suffered with your ex's mistreatment of you and your kids - but for many more years than I had to endure.

Yes, it's very difficult to read - I think it's even more difficult to face square on and to accept the reality in full.

How can someone you loved be so cruel and so horrible? It can't possibly be true or as bad as I/you think it was. This is the phase of questioning yourself, and that comes from all the gaslighting and from all the blaming and deflection of blame.

It WAS that bad - and that's where acceptance comes into play in the healing and recovery process. It's a matter of adopting radical acceptance of the sheer horror.

The more you face it, accept it, and understand it as being the TRUTH vs questioning yourself, your perceptions, and reality, the better off you will be and you will heal and recover that much more quickly.

She is not who you think she was/is. The worst you've seen come out in her is the real person underneath.

OMG!

That is both true and scary! The worst parts of her I've seen are who she truly is.

My new therapist pulls no punches, does not talk in circles, and cuts right through a lot of stuff.

When I told her my history and what others had said, she said, "Then we are going to move forward as if all that you are saying is true. I have a responsibility to you as my patient to build you up and help you recognize the disordered personality you lived with."

Over four sessions she got me to relay some specific examples of things that occurred.

After session four she said, "There are aspects of covert narcissism for sure, but also borderline personality because she really can't emotionally regulate. But she also repeatedly did things that damaged you in some way without benefitting her. That is not covert narcissism or borderline. This is someone who wants to harm you for no personal gain in what ways she can, either your reputation, your finances, or whatever, even though the minor is with you full time. That is psychopathy. "

That scared me. She said, "That should scare you. Recognize this is someone who can, and who wants, to cause you harm."

And if she showed up at my door crying, in emotional pain, with nowhere to go.... I'd struggle to say no to her.

That’s referred to as Stockholm Syndrome. Feeling too much compassion for someone who is causing harm to you - someone who wants to harm you.

You won't believe this.....

I know a guy who spent 22 years at sea as a ship mechanic.

Now he lives two blocks from me and works in construction. We drink coffee together. His english isn't great. He's someone who has been through the south asian islands, and around Somalia. He's fought off pirates, for real.

Last August we were having coffee and he said, "I watch you. You have stockholm syndrome. I see what she do and who she is and i see you defend her, always defend her, and I think you have stockholm syndrome."

See? I am not the only one pointing it out. You gotta abandon that - it's not healthy - but on your own timeline and when you're ready, you will.

To let you know, that was strictly an objective observation and not judgement. I’ve been trying to break the trauma bond for over a year. It took a year and a half to break.

Hope, me and you are good. No miscommunication or negative assumptions

Just a thought, "defending"someone vs giving excuses for their behavior are 2 different things. I don't condone or defend the actions of my now ex but understanding the mental issues behind the behavior as the reason for it is not defending it. I still believe we all need to deal with the consequences of our behaviors. I am just so thankful that I no longer have to deal with the consequences of his behavior on my life. I'm still cleaning up those consequences legally after all these years. just glad he can't do more damage

Thank you Eskie. I understand what you’re saying

@RDMercer you are also dealing with someone who has substance abuse problems. The way your wife was abusing alcohol is KNOWN to damage both white and gray brain tissues. So your wife is less likely to change and more likely to continue unhealthy patterns in any relationship she ventures into. This includes work relationships where she can’t emotionally regulate.